Subj:	TRAVELLER digest 362
Date:	95-07-29 16:59:04 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From:	traveller@mpgn.com
Sender:	traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)
			    TRAVELLER Digest 362

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Kitty Hawk	by Duncan Law-Green <dlg@jb.man.ac.uk>
  2) Robot rulesby James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
  3) Re: TRAVELLER digest 361	by "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
  4) RE: TRAVELLER digest 361 	by That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 361	by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  6) DCII design & adventure ideas	by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:08:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Duncan Law-Green <dlg@jb.man.ac.uk>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Kitty Hawk
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950728230744.3963A-100000@fafnir>


>Following a number of expeditions to establish a refuelling
>dump at Point Alpha (empty space at 0307 Solomani Rim).  In -2424 (AD 2094),
>'Kitty Hawk' and her sister ships 'Santa Maria' and 'Endeavour' jumped into
>the Barnard system, and encountered a group of Vilani prospectors searching
>for lanthanum ores.

A point of order, Mr. Bailey...

According to the adventure "The Strider Incident", published in
Challenge #fiftysomething (I don't have my collection with me), the
first Terran vessel to jump to the Barnard system was the USS
_Starleaper_ captained by Lorette Strider of the US Space Force.

This was the only adventure I wrote which saw professional
publication, so I am kind of attached to it :-)

Apart from that trivial point, a very nice article. Thank you.

J. Duncan Law-Green
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\         THE BREAKTHROUGH PROJECT --- UPDATING TRAVELLER       \\\
\\\    AI + Nanotechnology + Geneering + Cold Fusion + .......?   \\\
\\\\\\\\\dlg@jb.man.ac.uk/////////////dlg@ryouko.demon.co.uk\\\\\\\\\

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 21:52:25 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Robot rules
Message-ID: <9507290452.AA12535@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

Andy Lilly says:

>Which was copied straight from Robots Book 8 and not clearly linked with the
cybernetics options given in FF&S? Surprise me.
>

Okay. Book 8 was broken. Incomprehensible, incomplete, incoherent. It was also
a rather obvious (in hindsight) test run for the DGP crew's vehicle design
system. You know, the one in MT.

By comparison, the robot rules in Vampire Fleets are merely inobvious and
inconclusive. They are a TOTAL rewrite which leaves out some of the esoteric
(and therefore popular) options in robot building, are a little vague about
what they _do_ cover, and which suffer from a badly abbreviated instruction
set.  What these rules cover, they cover completely.:

 The Vampire Fleets rules work (under admitedly limited circumstances); the
Book 8 rules did not work by any stretch of the imagination. Well, okay, by
a _really_ long stretch ("volumes? We don't need no steenkin' volumes!").

And yes, the cybernetics rules ARE referenced in the VF rules.

This (justly) biased review brought to you by:
James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
              <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>

"I am the downhill tumble and roll champ,
 King of the Toad Finders, Captain of the
 High Altitude Tree Branch Vista Club, second
 place finisher in the 'round the yard backward
 dash, premier burper state division, Sodbuster
 and Worm Scout First Order, and generalissimo
 of the Mud and Mayhem Society!"
                    -Calvin (not the theologian)

------------------------------

Date:          Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:17:01 +0000
From: "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 361
Message-ID: <199507290916.KAA12536@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk>

Scott and Vivian Nolan summed up my feelings perfectly with regards 
to Traveller. The attraction of the original games was it's 
simplicity the rules where secondary to the GAME. This rigid 
adherence to rules which seams to pervail is rather sad, where's the 
spirit. These days if you want to invent a toy for your campaign you 
need to be a maths or engineering graduate at the very minimum the 
rules are to inhibitive. I know people who spent years inventing 
systems right down to what type of screw heads are required on 
toasters (I exaggerate, but please allow me some poetic license).
The important thing should be ideas, both wild and mundane. What we 
should do is designate one mailing list for the number crunchers and 
another for the idealists.
Cheers
Bob

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:47:20 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: TRAVELLER digest 361 
Message-ID: <199507291547.LAA08001@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Sat, 29 Jul 1995 05: 16:40 EDT
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:47:20 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: Scott and Vivian Nolan summed up my feelings perfectly with regards  [stuff deleted]
: The important thing should be ideas, both wild and mundane. What we 
: should do is designate one mailing list for the number crunchers and 
: another for the idealists.
: Cheers
: Bob
: 

Pardon me while I get a good laugh going.  I've seen and posted many
discussions on story ideas and topics that have nothing to do with the
math behind the game.

So where were you then?

I too love the game for being a game rather than a tutorial for a
class.  I do concentrate on the story more than the toys (not that
building toys isn't fun).

So where's your post?

What I'm trying to say is that I've seen people who've never posted
before complain that they don't like the contents of what's being
posted. 

So why don't you all post something?

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:29:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 361
Message-ID: <9507291629.AA14393@Rt66.com>

Hi,

> : Scott and Vivian Nolan summed up my feelings perfectly with regards 
> [stuff deleted]
> : The important thing should be ideas, both wild and mundane. What we 
> : should do is designate one mailing list for the number crunchers and 
> : another for the idealists.
> : Cheers
> : Bob
> : 

So wild and mundane ideas that involve technology or science would be banned 
from a split off group?  Math is just another way of expressing ideas. 
Balkanizing the TML is silly.  The tech types can post tech stuff, and the non-
tech types can post non-tech stuff... interestingly, as Jerry points out, some
of the tech people do both, but the non-tech types seem to be more likely to
not post at all.

> <<snipped some of Jerry's comments>> 
> I too love the game for being a game rather than a tutorial for a
> class.  I do concentrate on the story more than the toys (not that
> building toys isn't fun).

I might add that sometimes in science fiction there is some science in the 
story (Larry Niven, Bob Forward, etc. come to mind)
>
> So where's your post?
> 
They don't have to post... change *your* posts (at least the yucky technical
ones) so they can enjoy lurking better :)

> What I'm trying to say is that I've seen people who've never posted
> before complain that they don't like the contents of what's being
> posted. 
> 
> So why don't you all post something?
> 
>        --Jerry
> 
Hear, hear.

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 19:08:00 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: DCII design & adventure ideas
Message-ID: <53@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

Months ago I posted an adventure seed, 'Dark Century', based around the theft of 
a prototype spaceship from the RCES. At the time I decided not to post my 
original design for the Century, as it was one of my earlier, poorer, ship 
designs. Here is the 'sequel' design, which is more in keeping with the 'Hunt
for Red October' style adventure I imagined.


Dark Century II-Class Mercenary Destroyer

General Data
Displacement:900 tons
Length	:43.5m
Price 	:800MCr 
Config	:Disc AF
Hull Armour	:76
Volume	:12600m^3
Target size	:_S_
Tech Level	:TL12 with TL13 relic fusion & sandman computers
Mass(L/E)	:13442/14027

Engineering Data
Power Plant	:Maneuver Plant = 1800MW Fusion, 1 month duration (100MW/hit)
		 Ship's Systems	= 600MW Fusion, 3 months duration (100MW/hit)
Jump perf.	:2 (2520m^3 fuel)
G-Rating	:4 (450MW/G), Contra-Grav lifters (90MW)
G-Turns	:40 (85 using jump fuel), 56.25m^3 fuel each
Maint		:521

Electronics
Computer	:1xTL12 Mod Fb, 1xTL12 Mod SM Fb, 1xTL12 Mod SM
Commo		:2x1000AU Maser(inf ,1.2MW ea), 300,000km radio (10 hexes, 10MW)
Avionics	:TL8+ Avionics
Sensors	:180,000km Passive EMS folding array (6 hexes, 0.25MW), 
		 3x 120,000km Passive EMS (4 hexes, 0.15MW each),
		 2x 480,000km Active EMS (16 hexes, 20MW each),
		 180,000km Ladar (6 hexes, 2.5MW)
ECM/ECCM	:480,000km ActEMS jammer (16 hexes, 40MW)
		 EM Masking (12.6MW)
		 Decoy Dispenser (600 each vs Active and passive, 300 vs Ladar)
Controls	:Bridge with 17xBridge W/S, 14 other W/S.

Armament
Offensive:TL-12 1890MJ Particle Accelerator (Locs 1-20, Arcs:1; 52.5MW; 3 crew), 
6 x TL12 600MJ Laser Barbette (Loc 11/12 - Arcs:All ; 12.96MW ea ; 1 Crew ea.)
Defensive:6x Sandcaster Turret (Loc 11/12 - Arcs:All ; TL12; 1D10x5 reduce/hit; 
30 cann ea. ; 1MW ea. ; 1crew ea.), TL12 Meson Screen (PV 250; 25MW; 1 crew)
MFD	:3xTL-12 Beam MFD (5 Diff mods;No msl.;10 hexes;6.2 MW ea;1 crew ea.)
			Short	     Medium      Long           Extreme.
1890MJ Particle Accel.	10:217	     20:217	 40:108	        80:54
400 MJ Laser Barbette	10:1/15-50   20:1/15-50	 40:1/13-40	80:1/6-6

Accommodations
Life Spprt.	:Extended (1.566MW - excludes fuel tankage), Gravitic 
Compensators (3G, 39.15MW)
Crew		:70, Engineering 13, Electronics 2, Maneuver 2, Gunnery 14, 
Maintenance 3, Flight Crew 11, Ships Troops 14, Command 10, Stewards 1.
Crew Accom	:20 Bunks (triple occupancy), 5 Small Staterooms (double 
occupancy, 0.0005MW ea), Large Stateroom (0.001 MW)
PassengerAc	:None
Other		:Sick bay (0.8MW)
Cargo		:188.4kl (1 large cargo hatch)
Subcraft	:4 x RCES attack speeder (in docking rings)
		 1 x Assault Lander (in docking rings)
AirLocks	:10

Notes	:
Fuel purification machinery (7.5MW) 24hrs to refine 5058kl. Fuel scoops
fitted.

Internal Explosion

1-2	1-4 PA, 5-20 Elec	
3	1-13 Elec, 14-18 Qtrs. , 19-20 PA
4-8	1-5 Qtrs. , 6-18 Hold , 19-20 PA
9	1-2 Qtrs. , 3-4 PA, 5-20 Hold
10-11	1-4 & 5-8 & 9-12 LB, 13 & 14 & 15 SC, 16-17 PA, 18-20 Eng.
12-16	1-2 PA, 3-20 Hold
17-19	1-2 PA, 3-20 Eng.
20	1-2 PA, 3-8 Hold, 9-20 Eng.

Surface Hits
1	1 Decoy, 2 AL, 3-20 Ant
2	1 AL, 2-20 Ant
3-4	1-20 Ant
5	1-8 Ant, 9-20 EMMR
6	1-2 AL
7-20	-

Damage: AEMS 4h, (180k)PEMS Ant 1H, MesonScrn. 4H, AEMSJamm 4h, Decoy 4h, EMM

2H, EMMR 12h, MFD 4h, Sickbay 1H, LSR 1H, SSR 2h, LS 22H, ELS 11H, AG 2H, JD 
15H, PP 24H,  MD 2H, CG 2H, FPP 10H, LB 3H, SC 1H, PA 17H

Until the development of black globes, there are only a limited number of ways 
to make a craft stealthy, small size, passive sensors, EMM & decoys. The DCII
uses all of these approaches, to produce a light destroyer which has a sensor
signature little larger than a subsidised merchant. 
The design is _extremely_ tight, as fitting the desired offensive power into a 
sufficiently small hull required several compromises to be made. The biggest 
compromise is in crew accommodations, while the officers are not made to suffer 
too badly, the crew have poor quarters, with triple occupancy in bunks. 
The power plant is divided into two reactors, one which provides power for all 
the ship's subsystems, which is kept on line constantly, and another 
specifically for the maneuver drive, which is taken off line during jump and for 
extended station keeping. The life support is limited to the occupied volume of 
the ship, meaning vacc suits must be worn when servicing empty fuel tanks. The 
subcraft are kept in docking rings, allowing no access for maintenance while in 
space. As they are intended only for use in planetary situations, repairs as 
necessary would be performed on the ground, or at a stretch in an EVA in orbit.
Two of the ship's three computers are sandman viral systems, leaving only one
uninfected. This allows the crew requirement to be kept lower than it would 
otherwise be. Although when the design was first proposed there were concerns as 
to how the two viruses would interact, in the few examples which were built the 
computers actually performed marginally better as a pair, appearing to benefit 
from the 'company', as each computer gave the other new ideas as to how to 
optimise themselves.
As well as being a significant naval force, the ship also carries two squads of 
marines (7 troopers and 1 officer per squad), and a unit of attack speeders 
(under the command of the flight officer, along with the assault lander), all of 
whom are under the command of a marine commander, responsible to the ship's captain.
The ship is expensive in comparison to TL14/15 designs, including the 
Broadsword, but the Century is manufactured at TL12, with fusion plants 
purchased from the Hivers or salvaged, and actually offers performance which 
compares very well to higher TL designs.
It enjoys popularity both with the RCES, who appreciate its multi-role 
capability, and mercenary units, who want to invest money in improving the unit 
without employing a crew for a second Broadsword.

Adventure Ideas:
(I've already covered starship theft, unfortunately I don't know what digest my 
original posting appeared in)

Mutiny: Even with the operating table in the sick bay converted to a pool table, 
the accommodations for the crew are awful. It is a major task for the command
crew to keep the tension amongst the crew down to a manageable level. After
some disappointment, maybe delayed wages because an employer vanished, the crew 
finally snaps. Players could be involved on either side in the following
mess, which could involve the factions fighting for control of the critical areas
of the ship. The strains of sandman on board might get involved, or they could
just leave those crazy humans to themselves.

Murder: The atmosphere on board is very different to the shiny white corridors 
of TL15 military vessels, at TL12, with a design this tight, excess gloss can't 
be afforded, so the corridors are poorly lit, with tubes and cables running 
along low ceilings (think Alien/Aliens). One of the marines is a severe 
claustrophobe, and the continual closeness of the walls causes a breakdown. He 
is left with a split personality, most of the time he is completely normal, but 
occasionally, under stress or in confined spaces, he changes into a violent 
killer. This is a perfect opportunity to make your players so paranoid that they 
suspect everyone, even each other. For the ultimate twist, the killer _is_ one 
of the players, the murders happening at night, while the player was 'asleep'. 
Tell them this and they will think that they have an alibi, then see how they
react as they begin to find evidence pointing to themselves. Do they cover it
up? At the very least it should stop the final solution to the adventure from
being a simple shoot up, after all, the players wouldn't shoot to kill one of
their own, would they? 
For a more tasteful adventure use a mad technician who sabotages vital ship's
systems while in his alternate personality.

Incompetent: The high cost of the Century means that it is sometimes purchased 
as a 'toy' by hot-headed young businessmen with more money than sense, who want 
a more 'adventurous' lifestyle. When a mercenary unit is formed by this hothead, 
he puts himself in command, as ship's captain. The results of his incompetency 
could be funny (eg. stupid missions, like being hired by one TL2 village to 
destroy the rabbit farm in the neighbouring village, and then being paid in 
loud, smelly livestock, which make conditions on board even worse), or extremely 
threatening (hey guys, lets go find out what this 'Black Sphere' is all about). 
Given time this may well end up in a mutiny.

There, some adventure ideas. For the record, I don't worship maths or the 
mechanics, but equally I like being able to tweak designs at a fairly low 
level, it helps me get into the atmosphere of the game, which makes it easier to 
write adventures. I guess you just can't please everyone. 

I've been thinking about how to produce a simplified design sequence. Maybe 
'mini-clippers' would be one way to do it. Hull shells could be designed using 
the basic rules, then modules could be added to fill the space. Some suggestions 
for modules would be:
thruster units (a self contained power plant, combustion chamber, fuel tank for 
50G-turns, fuel tank for the power plant) - worked out for 1G for 100ton, it 
could be multiplied up for bigger ships/accelerations
weapon units (Laser, Missiles, including necessary power plant and fuel, missile 
storage, maybe an MFD)
subcraft units (Including hangar, subcraft, flight crew accom)
sensor units (long range PEMS/AEMS, short range PEMS/AEMS, survey sensors) and so on.....

The idea would be that each would be as self contained as possible, containing 
power, fuel, possibly even crew accommodations. Standard hit charts could be 
worked out for each module, like clipper modules, and then the overall damage
chart could be worked out like the clipper. The final result would not actually 
be a clipper, because the modules would be considered a permanent part of the
ship.

Although this might help with design, it would make it even messier in play, as 
hundreds of charts would be needed. Perhaps Scott Nolan could be more specific 
with what he dislikes about the design sequences, then we can try to work out a 
way to help. If the whole thing seems too daunting, then the forms in the 
Players' Forms book might help you organise a design.

-- 
Brendan


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End of TRAVELLER Digest 362
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